MINUTES OF THE 73rd ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE
TALYLLYN RAILWAY PRESERVATION SOCIETY
(the “Society”, a Company Limited by Guarantee, registered in England and Wales no. 15595769)
Held at The Magic Lantern Cinema, Corbett Square, Tywyn, Gwynedd on Saturday 28th September 2024 and live streamed on Microsoft Teams
A recording of the meeting is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-FFRs27_sM
On the platform were Chris Price, President TRPS, Bill Heynes, Chairman TRPS, David Ventry, Chairman TR Co; Andrew Simner, Hon Secretary, TRPS and Secretary TR Co and Garry Mumford, Hon Treasurer TRPS and Accountant TR Co. There were some 108 members present and 52 devices logged on to the Microsoft Teams live-stream.
Chris Price opened the meeting at 13:30 saying that as a result of the incorporation of the Society, the AGM would follow a new format and asked for patience as this was the first instance of online voting being allowed and it may take a little to get used to the new arrangement of combining online votes with votes cast in the room.
Andrew Simner explained that the quorum for the meeting was the combination of those people who had submitted votes in advance and those present. The required quorum is 75, and with 420 people casting votes in advance and 108 in the room the meeting was quorate by some way. Two of the motions at today’s meeting will be decided by ballot, these being the election for members of Council and the proposal to change membership subscription rates; others will be by combining a show of hands by those present with votes cast in advance online.
Garry Mumford, Bill Heynes and David Ventry introduced themselves and stated their roles.
Andrew Simner said that the two General Managers, the Fundraising Officer and several other Society officers were present and would be making presentations to the meeting. There would be the opportunity for questions to be asked at various points during the meeting and noted that Tony Randall would be taking the minutes, asking those speaking from the floor to announce themselves clearly for the benefit of the minute taker.
He explained that there would be an auction after the meeting and outlined the arrangements for those watching the live stream to be able to participate in it, and how they may participate in the Question and Answer sessions. He then summarised the agenda for the meeting.
1. Apologies
Apologies for absence had been received from Keith Theobald, Sheila Jennings, Gordon Rhodes, Andy Lawton, Barney and Amaryllis Bell, Bill Tyndall, Tim Hudson, Peter Stowell, Richard and Wendy Plummer, Martyn Hall and many other members who have been unable to get to Tywyn today.
2. Election of President
Andrew Simner advised that Council has nominated Chris Price as President in accordance with the rules of the Society and asked for a show of hands separately for, against and abstentions. There were none against and no abstentions, so 94 votes in the room. Advance online votes were 382 for, 8 against and 25 abstentions. Chris Price was therefore declared elected as President and took the chair.
Tony Randall interjected and asked why there was discrepancy between 108 members present at the Magic Lantern, but only 94 votes being cast from the room. Andrew Simner explained that some of those present had already voted online and others may have been under 16 and not eligible to vote.
Chris Price thanked the meeting for re-electing him and apologised for not being in Tywyn as much as would have liked in the last 12 months, but relocating to a new job and selling houses had taken up much of his time. He expected to be able to spend more time here in the coming year.
3. In memoriam.
Chris Price asked the meeting to remember those members who had passed away over the past year and paid tribute in particular to Mike Green, Dave Scotson, John Smallwood and Ian Howitt. He understood that Ian Howitt’s ashes were in the room, which was greeted with applause. The meeting then stood in silence in the memory of these Talyllyn Railway stalwarts.
4. AGM Appeal.
Chris Price invited David Ventry to explain the objective of this year’s AGM Appeal.
David Ventry explained that he was introducing the appeal on behalf of Keith Theobald who was unable to attend the meeting. The Outdoor gang is getting older as are the tools they use. New and refurbished tools will increase the gang’s efficiency and this year’s appeal sought approximately £3,000 to purchase, amongst other items, long handled “never bend” shovels, mattocks, tarmac rakes (for raking ballast) and secure containers for small tools and PPE. Any excess received will go into general funds. Members were urged to complete the Gift Aid section on the appeal envelopes if they were eligible to do so, or donate at Wharf Booking Office and make sure the donation was noted as for the AGM Appeal.
5. Minutes of the 72nd Annual General Meeting
The Minutes of the 72nd Annual General Meeting of the Society, held in Tywyn on Saturday 30th September 2023 and live streamed on Microsoft Teams had been circulated to members of the Society at that date. Chris Price invited question or amendments to the minutes, but there were none.
Chris Price asked for a show of hands in favour of accepting the Minutes., also for those against, and for abstentions. There were 94 votes in favour in the room, advance online votes were 386 in favour of accepting the Minutes, 1 vote against and 27 abstentions. The Minutes were therefore approved.
6. There were no Matters arising from the Minutes of the 72nd Annual General Meeting.
7. Membership subscription rates
Chris Price said that the support the Society gives to that railway is incredibly important, not only in the voluntary effort, but also the financial support. He added that it should be put into perspective that the proposed increase in ordinary subscriptions was little more than the price of a pint of beer. The proposed new rates were Life £800, Senior Life £400, Associate Senior Life £200, and for Ordinary annual membership £40. No changes were proposed to the subscription rates of other membership categories.
Chris Price asked for questions from the floor but there were none. He then explained that voting for this matter for people in the room was an item on the voting slips handed out on entry to the meeting. Ballot papers would be collected after the next item.
Later in the meeting (after item 12) Roger Whitehouse, Returning Officer, advised that there had been 514 members voting – 2 by post, 94 in person and 418 online. Nobody had taken the option to appoint a proxy. There were 446 votes in favour of the new subscription rates, 35 votes against and 28 recorded abstentions. The proposition was therefore approved.
8. Election of members of Council
Chris Price asked Andrew Simner to read out the names of the seven candidates who had been nominated for Council. These were Ian Drummond, Phil Eaton, Jane Garvey, Jonathan Mann, Garry Mumford, Debs Sharpe and Julian Stow who identified themselves by standing. Andew Simner reminded the meeting that each member could cast up to six votes.
Later in the meeting (after Item 12) Roger Whitehouse announced the results. 468 members had voted. The votes cast were as follows: Ian Drummond 399, Phil Eaton 339, Jane Garvey 291, Jonathan Mann 378, Garry Mumford 373, Debs Sharpe 381 and Julian Stow 406. Ms. Sharpe and Messrs Drummond, Eaton, Mann, Mumford and Stow were declared elected. Permission was given to destroy the ballot papers in the usual way.
Chris Price explained that after the ballot papers for the election of members of Council had been distributed one member of Council had stood down, meaning that there were now seven vacancies. Council has the opportunity, if it so wishes, to co-opt another person to Council.
9. Appointment of Auditors to the Society
Chris Price said the BHP LLP had been nominated by Council to be Auditors to the Society. He added that the auditor role is important as they hold Council to financial accountability on behalf of the membership. He asked for a show of hands in favour of appointing BHP LLP., also for those against, and abstentions. There were 94 votes in favour in the room, advance online votes were 385 in favour of the appointment, 3 votes against and 25 abstentions. BHP LLP were therefore appointed as the auditors for the Talyllyn Railway Preservation Society.
10. Report of Council
Chris Price called on Bill Heynes to present the report of Council.
Bill Heynes welcomed everybody to the 1st Annual General Meeting of the Society as an incorporated body, following last year’s AGM approving the proposal for Incorporation of the Society as a Company Limited by Guarantee. The last meeting of Council of the unincorporated Society and the first of the incorporated body both took place on 15th June 2024. He thanked Andrew Simner for the effort he had put into making this a seamless transfer. This was greeted with applause.
He hoped to avoid duplicating what the General Managers would be covering in their report and referred to the particular efforts of the Young Members Group, the Wednesday Club’s carriage maintenance activities, Locomotive Woking Parties, those attending Outdoor Week and hedge laying working parties, Tracksiders, Navvies, roster clerks and the volunteers crewing our trains throughout the running season.
He referred to the stockpile of Ffos-y-fran coal around Wharf, and that in future our coal supplies will need to be sourced from elsewhere, and maybe take alternative forms such as ovoids which he trialled in the summer.
No report would be complete without thanking the membership, whose tremendous support and generosity keeps the railway going. He concluded by thanking Ian Drummond, the Railway’s Fundraising Officer for his work in seeking external funding sources and for the successful launch of the 75 Appeal.
An anonymous member watching the live stream asked whether there had been any analysis on how much the free travel is utilised, whether it is the same limited number of people using it and whether a revamp on the categories of membership should be considered? Garry Mumford said that there were some 8,000 to 9,000 members trips per annum, and although statistics about individual usage used to be kept this has not been done for a number of years. Council had spent a lot of time debating the balance between subscription rates and fares, which has got out of kilter in recent years. The proposal passed earlier in the meeting was an interim solution, but a lot more work needs to be done. He added that when usage statistics were kept there was no real evidence of abuse of free travel facilities.
11. Report of the Honorary Treasurer
Chris Price invited Garry Mumford the to present the report of the Honorary Treasurer.
Garry Mumford referred to his report printed in the Annual Report section of the September 2024 issue of Talyllyn News and wanted to use the time to explain where the railway is financially. The challenge of the business is to balance the books in a sustainable way, but the operation of the railway has consistently shown a deficit for a long time. Heritage railways and visitor attractions in general have suffered since the Covid-19 pandemic. In recent years there have been huge increases in costs, but income has not risen at the same rate as the rise in costs. The organisation has very substantial reserves, relative to its size. The catering and shop operations are consistently very profitable and make a substantial contribution to making the books balance. The Society generates an annual surplus of roughly £50,000 after the costs of servicing its members, and the Heart of Gold of Golf group provides a similar amount, so matters become unsustainable if the deficit exceeds the £100,000 support from these sources. The deficit in years 2022 and 2023 and that projected for 2024 far exceeds this figure. The number of people travelling on the railway is relatively static in the mid 30,000s each year. The situation is that we cannot increase the number of people travelling on the railway without attracting more people to the area. This is something largely out of our control. The challenge is to increase income and reduce costs at current passenger levels, although numbers for this year are significantly down on last year.
He concluded his report by offering to answer any questions.
David Uren said that he is involved with a number of organisations which took government loans during the pandemic to see them through and are now experiencing difficulties in repaying those loans. He asked whether the Talyllyn Railway’s recent situation was as a result of repaying such loans. Garry Mumford replied that the railway did not take any loans and has not been in debt for a long time. During the pandemic the railway received grant income from government initiatives and was one of the few organisations to be able to make a successful claim from its insurers for business interruption. This bought time as the railway came out of the pandemic, but things are now catching up with us.
An anonymous member watching the live stream observed that any plan to reduce costs by dropping the number of trains run would possibly reduce further visitors due to lack of flexibility in the level of service. Gary Mumford replied that the implication of change needs to be carefully considered, but nothing should not be on the table. David Ventry said that the General Manager (Commercial) and others involved in timetable planning had reviewed the number of people travelling on trains and it is very apparent that the last train in the four-train service is carrying very few passengers and that economies could be made there without adversely affecting passenger numbers and income. Next year’s timetable will have about 10% fewer ordinary service trains, but with plans to run more premium trains which bring in extra income. He added that the Board considers the situation to be controllable and manageable. It has taken steps to conserve money by not incurring any external expenditure unless absolutely essential and if any paid staff leave the company’s employment there will be careful consideration about whether they should be replaced. There is no shortage of cash but is should be spent wisely. Chris Price said that some tourist related business had demonstrated that not opening every day of the week had had little effect on overall visitor numbers as Google will tell you whether a place is open or not.
Nigel Adams related a comment from his son Paul that preserved and heritage railways were not things young children today want to do today.
Jon Richmond recalled that some time ago the quietest service was two round trips for one engine, but now it is three trips, with one engine doing only one round trip, and asked if there would be any benefit reverting to the earlier arrangement. David Ventry replied that this had been considered, but that two return trips was relatively unattractive to passengers and left Abergynolwyn café staff with a long period between trains with no activity and it had been decided to retain the current lilac service.
Sue Palmer asked if there was a case for charging more for travelling in our new carriages.
An anonymous member watching the live stream asked if the reliance on Thomas events and lack of original events and marketing had affected passenger numbers. Lorraine Simkiss (Commercial Manager) replied that there is a huge reliance on the income from the Awdry event, but this event is clearly what people want. Events are not staged if they are unlikely to achieve a suitable financial return, but the main source of income is from everyday passengers, who are now expecting more than just a train ride, which is what is being focussed upon for next year. Garry Mumford believed that the railway has a huge amount to thank Wilbert Awdry for, and that more should be made of his connection with the railway. Derek Putley supported this view.
12. Adoption of the Reports of Council and of the Honorary Treasurer
Chris Price asked for a show of hands in favour of adopting the Report of Council as printed in the September 2024 issue of Talyllyn News to raise a hand. There were none against, and no abstentions.
Advance online votes were 397 in favour of adopting the report, with 3 against and 12 abstentions.
Chris Price asked for a show of hands in favour of adopting the Report of the Honorary Treasurer as printed in the September 2024 issue of Talyllyn News to raise a hand. There were none against, and no abstentions. Advance online votes were 393 in favour of adopting the report, with 3 against and 12 abstentions. Both reports were therefore adopted.
At this point Roger Whitehouse announced the results of the ballots under items 7 and 8.
13. Update from Railway Management
Chris Price introduced a recorded review of the year so far presented by Liz Porrett and Lorraine Simkiss.
Liz Porrett referred to the return to service of Locomotives Nos. 1 and 4, the appearance of No. 5 as Rusty at the Awdry Extravaganza and the work to reassemble its gearbox. The Corris brake van was returned to service at the Anything Goes gala and the delivery of a bogie ballast hopper constructed at Aberystwyth by the Vale of Rheidol Railway had allowed the sale of three existing ballast hopper wagons to the Corris Railway. The battery locomotive is at Alan Keef’s works for regauging. The track panel for the standard gauge wagon had been placed alongside the wharf edge, but a suitable crane is still needed to lift the wagon onto it. The last supply of coal from Ffos y fran has been received – future sources of coal may be imported from Poland, although CPL heritage coal will also be trialled. The working at height platforms funded by the 2023 AGM appeal are now in use in the loco. shed, and the new carriages which have been built at Boston Lodge have been received many favourable comments.
Lorraine Simkiss detailed the current hostel arrangements at Llechfan and Idris Villas and hoped that the planned redevelopment of Trefri would provide another suitable place for volunteers to stay in the future. She also referred to how the volunteer gardening team had improved the appearance of the railway though their efforts, which highlights that there are other ways that the membership can get involved. The contributions of the shop and café were recognised as were the special events that had taken place during the year. New appointments Simon Jenkins (Operating Manager), Steve Thorpe (Facilities Supervisor) and his assistants Steve and Jon, and Engineering Manager Graeme Wigglesworth were welcomed. A welcome event had been the presentation by the Lord Lieutenant of Merioneth to John Bate of the MBE he had been awarded.
Liz Porrett and Lorraine Simkiss concluded their review of the last year by jointly the giving a demonstration of the drugs and alcohol testing process and thanked those who had been randomly selected for a test for their cooperation.
Mark Tibbutt asked (on behalf of Rob Plumridge) whether there had been any assessment on the rostering impact of 10% fewer service trains but more premium trains as additional midweek trains were unlikely to attract additional volunteer bookings and may place an increased burden on a diminishing number of local volunteers. Lorraine Simkiss replied that in developing the timetable she had been in discussion with the roster clerks, particularly in respect of maintaining volunteer competences.
14. National Lottery Heritage Fund and 75 Appeal Update
Chris Price invited Liz Porrett and Ian Drummond to give an update on the National Lottery Heritage Fund application and the 75 Appeal.
Liz Porrett explained that the development stage of the project had been underway for 16 months and the NLHF required a mid-term review to be carried out before an application for the delivery phase of the project could be submitted. The mid-term review needed to address whether there have been changes to aspects of the project since the development grant was awarded. Areas covered in the review were consultation, activities, project plans, historical analysis and the conservation management plan. The preferred option for progression is the most expensive but provides all the required engineering facilities and amenities on one site at Pendre and significantly improves the quality of volunteer accommodation provided at Trefri. Other less expensive options have been explored, but the selected option meets the NLHF’s suggestion to achieve everything required. The option does have risks associated with it, principally planning and funding, but does meet all requirements. All plans have been reviewed and assessed for accessibility, sustainability and interpretation (how we tell visitors about our history. The impact on the operational railway during the delivery phase is being assessed if the delivery grant is awarded and the project proceeds.
Ian Drummond started by outlining the enormous amount of work done by Nick Broster, Project Development Manager, in assembling 1300 pages of reports submitted for the mid-term review. The meeting acknowledged this effort with a round of applause. Initial project estimate cost in 2019 was £2.45m. Now all the reports have been completed allowing a better estimate to be made, costs are expected to be £5.8m for phase 1. Construction costs account for £3.75m., management fees another £560,000 and over £1m contingency, for such effects as inflation. The original delivery phase application was for 30% of the cost (£1.1m), but with the increasing costs the application been increased to 65% of the cost (£3.8M) which NLHF has agreed to consider. The fact that they are willing to consider this is thought to be testament to the quality of already submitted. However, with the 75 Appeal target and other grant application this still leaves a funding shortfall of a little over £1.0m.
He continued that the response from the membership to the 75 Appeal had been amazing. There is currently £163,000 in the bank, and there have been 303 sign-ups to the 75 Club donating £55,00 per year which should result in an income in excess of £400,000 by 31st December 2028, and way ahead of where we expected to be. The £1.0m funding shortfall is being addressed by seeking other grants from trusts and statutory bodies, possibly using some of our reserves, and increasing the 75 Appeal target to £750,000, which is considered achievable given the progress so far.
Liz Porrett concluded by saying that the application could not be submitted until the sources of the match funding had been identified and confirmed and urged people to commit their donations as soon as possible.
15. Miscellaneous Announcements
Jane Garvey thanked the thirteen people who had submitted applications to the Long Service Award scheme this year and encouraged those eligible but who have not applied to do so. She added that the awards were not just for operational duties, but all volunteering qualified, such as museum, shop, catering and area group activities. As an example, one of the awards this year is to be presented to a member of the Railway Letter Stamp group. Awards were presented by the President to Will Smith and Simon Nuttall (both 15 years), David Broadbent, Steve Vince and Anthony Coulls (all 25 years), Jon Richmond (40 years) and Liz Green (50 years). All the other awards have been presented during the year or will be presented when the person in next in Tywyn.
Bethan Price announced the result of the online election for the Traffic & Operating Committee. There were four candidates for three positions. 367 votes had been cast as follows – Chas Briggs 45, Jack Evans 118, Matt James 106 and John S Robinson 98. Messrs Evans, James and Robinson were declared elected. She congratulated the successful candidates and thanked Bill Heynes for his work to allow the election to move on-line this year.
Luke Ryan, outgoing Chairman of the Young Members Group, announced the Committee elections results. There were 8 candidates for 5 roles. 46 people cast 184 votes. The successful candidates and their roles for the next year were Matt Jordan (Chairman, 20 votes), Alex Hando (Secretary, 31 votes), Jasmine Wakeham (Social events coordinator, 20 votes), Ffion Freeman (Working party coordinator, 37 votes) and Em Thorpe (Treasurer, 24 votes). He concluded with a brief summary of what the Group had organised and achieved in the last year in particular the receipt of a £5,000 grant for the construction of a replica gunpowder van which was making good progress.
Andrew Simner (in the absence of Keith Theobald) said that there was a long list of activities for the forthcoming outdoor week from 9th to 17th November. These include installation of a RSJ at Brynglas stream, completion of Brynerwest resleepering, resleepering Fach Goch occupation crossing, preparation for Brynglas Bank resleepering and supporting hedging work at Abergynolwyn.
Tony Randall advised that the bar at Wharf Station would be open that evening from 19:30 with live music from The Magic Lantern Band after 21:00; there would be a film show by David Mitchell in the Slater Room. He added that tickets for the Bonfire and Fireworks event at Tynllwyn campsite on 2nd November are now sale through Wharf booking office.
16. Any other competent Business
Chris Johnson recalled that during last year’s autumn outdoor week the welfare and catering facilities provided for the gang was less than satisfactory – a kettle burned out, a water boiler blew up and the covered accommodation was a knackered old tent. He suggested that if there is a surplus from the collection for tools that it should be put to improving the welfare amenities for the outdoor gang. This may help attract younger people to the gang to hopefully reduce the average age of the gang. David Ventry said that the logistics of achieving that would not be easy but hoped there would be movement in the right direction.
Jean Westerman (museum volunteer) said there had been a comment that more should be done to push the Awdry connection in the museum, but is should be made clear that it is not just a Talyllyn Railway museum, but a national narrow gauge railway museum.
Gerald Grudgings said that living locally he works ceaselessly to encourage newcomers living in Tywyn to join as volunteers, trying to grab them before others do and save on staffing costs. He asked that others likewise do their best.
Gareth Jones, having just returned from the United States, wondered whether dollars were acceptable in the collection envelope. Chris Price said that any money in all currencies would be welcome and suggested that others returning from abroad with foreign currency could donate this to the railway.
Andy Garsed asked if the figures Ian Drummond quoted for the 75 Appeal donations to date included Gift Aid. Garry Mumford confirmed that the figures did not include Gift Aid – that has yet to be added.
Roger Strike said that pre-covid we used to hear at AGMs about coach party traffic, but nothing has been heard recently, is this something that could be resurrected? Lorraine Simkiss replied that we do still actively market the railway with coach companies, but a major issue is the lack of nearby accommodation suitable for coach groups.
The collection for the tools and equipment for the outdoor gang was taken and passed to Garry Mumford.
There being no further business, Chris Price closed the meeting at 15:30 thanking those attending the meeting, adding that despite the mixed news presented to the meeting he was sure that with the quality of people involved in the organisation it should continue in rude health for very many years to come.
